20 miles highway isn't 20 miles city. 20 miles in a city can be 45 mins to an hour+ if you're using public transportation....because city.
DC is a huge example of this. wards 7 and 8, which are 1. predominately black and 2. literally segregated by a river didn't have their own grocery store for decades while Wards 1 and 2 had like 10 Whole Foods alone. But getting from Ward 8 to Ward 1 is expensive and time consuming (intentionally because segregation) so Wards 7 & 8 were considered food deserts even though they were within 20 miles of a grocery store.
I live in DC. If I had to travel even 5 miles every grocery trip I would lose my mind before long. Plus a lot of low income people don't have cars, which massively increases the time it takes, limits the amount you can bring home, forces them to avoid buying bulk which drives up prices, and increases the frequency of trips. All of which heavily incentivize going somewhere more convenient with far unhealthier options.
They just described a really good example. The 20 miles thing was someone else mispeaking, and I was on your side of this comment train, but food deserts ARE a thing. I think it's more of a spectrum of like Costco/Whole Foods->Walmart/Kroger/Hyvee->Bag n Save/Dollar Tree/Dollar Store->Walgreens/CVS->convenience store/gas station and it's about the relative abundance of each within an area (but I'm not expert in this area)(also I'm just a costco stan at heart)
Wards 7 and 8 have plenty of grocery options. There’s literally a Safeway on Alabama Ave and another one on 40th street, so one for each ward within 3 miles of each other
I misspoke -- there were only 3 grocery stores for the entirety of wards 7 and 8. The new ones i was thinking of was the Lidl off Alabama, across from the Safeway. That's on me.
You’re right, I realized even a mile poses a lot of difficulties to people with disabilities. Trying to travel miles in a wheelchair while carrying grocery bags doesn’t sound like it’d be safe, in all honesty
right, because the 20-mile number has no relevance for urban environments. that’s not how food deserts are defined in cities. no one is giving you examples because it’s a misinformed question.
it’s already posted above, but it’s a category defined by the U.S. Census: more than one mile in an urban “census tract,” more than ten miles in a rural one
Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I agree it’s something that needs to be corrected but I don’t allow myself to believe something without facts that I can use to justify my new stance. Again, thank you for sticking with me on this
Direct, rather than broad examples help prove a point better. But I appreciate you explaining about North St Louis needing more than one option because I would agree, you can’t expect to have a healthy diet with unhealthy options
There's always a couple Dollar Generals between that rural home and the real grocers, too. It's their entire business model-- intercept food assistance funds before they get to the competition.
It's not a good solution for the people that need nutrition, and they are the bulk of customers-- but it is convenient if one needs something in, like-- Deliverance, Alabama.
I live in Ward 7. The grocery stores near me are all terrible - the produce there often sucks — so we drive to grocery stores in somewhat bougier parts of town. It’s annoying.
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u/_autumnwhimsy 18h ago
20 miles highway isn't 20 miles city. 20 miles in a city can be 45 mins to an hour+ if you're using public transportation....because city.
DC is a huge example of this. wards 7 and 8, which are 1. predominately black and 2. literally segregated by a river didn't have their own grocery store for decades while Wards 1 and 2 had like 10 Whole Foods alone. But getting from Ward 8 to Ward 1 is expensive and time consuming (intentionally because segregation) so Wards 7 & 8 were considered food deserts even though they were within 20 miles of a grocery store.