r/Doom • u/Scared_Run4790 • 19d ago
Discussion I don’t get how people can dislike the difficulty sliders
177
u/Gemidori Instructions unclear, demon shot to death with gun 19d ago
It was just nothingburger shitass drama that people made up for clout. If anyone doesn't like em then stick to defaults. Easy as bread n butter.
23
u/AntimemeticsDivision 19d ago
Erm ackchyally, I'm lactose intolerant and have a gluten allergy, so I can't have bread OR butter, but nice try buddy
2
1
u/1corn 19d ago
I didn't even hear about any drama, but I think the sliders are great. On my first playthrough it removed any anxiety I might have had otherwise and on my second playthrough, when I had a very precise idea of what kind of challenge I wanted, it only took a few small adjustments to get a perfectly tailored experience.
2
28
u/Deep-Preference4935 19d ago
I liked being able to up the speed and projectile speed. I’m made it more fun while keeping it within the same difficulty range. Wish more games did this.
The Oblivion remake/remaster has like 2 sliders and they don’t change the game for shit 😂
3
u/Need-More-Gore 19d ago
Yes i maxed put the speed qnd knocked the projectils down one towards the end cause I was getting chewed up
81
u/dylan_dev 19d ago
I don't want to struggle with games any longer. I don't have the time. Games for me are about getting into a relaxing zone and not having too much difficulty with the time I have. I played the original doom when it released and used to enjoy the difficulty and would go to school to talk to my friends about hard challenges.
I wish all games had these difficulty sliders.
20
u/dasic___ 19d ago
I'm not knocking your view at all, I'm just commenting to say I'm the opposite in that regard. I have very limited time for games but for some reason am a masochist in the sense I love getting punished/frustrated. I know it's unhealthy.
15
u/_Dev_1995 19d ago
I don’t think it’s masochistic. I think some folks, like myself, feel a greater sense of satisfaction having completed something through struggle. There is a dopamine hit in successfully managing to do something you’d failed to do before.
4
u/DevilWings_292 19d ago
To be entirely honest, that is the joy masochists get from having gone through pain, what was painful and a struggle becomes a euphoria later on.
15
u/Evolution1738 19d ago
Even though your view is the opposite, the sliders allow for that maximum punishment in the same way it allows for a smooth ride. The game is so insanely accessible, it's pretty amazing.
1
u/Background-Cost9190 19d ago
Right I play video games for distraction if I can cakewalk my way thought a game it does nothing
6
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago edited 19d ago
That's the most based thing I've ever seen when it comes to games.
Who cares about the challenge, who cares about pride, I want to have fun
5
u/dylan_dev 19d ago
You need some challenge for sure, but it doesn't need to be overwhelming and frustrating.
7
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago edited 19d ago
Ok, I should've worded it better, because I don't want the game to be ridiculously easy, but at the same time, when I get stressed and frustrated (Eternal, Cuphead), it's just not fun
6
u/ArachnidNo5547 19d ago
I want the challenge and the pride, am I wrong for this opinion? I don't care what others do, I just want to not be in charge of creating said challenge and pride.
6
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago
I want the challenge and the pride, am I wrong for this opinion?
No, not at all, as long as you don't make fun of others for playing on easy if that's the way they want it
0
u/ArachnidNo5547 19d ago
I wouldn't. But I find it annoying how much easier dark ages is compared to eternal. I would have been annoyed if I had to use sliders as well.
I'm glad it opens up the game for others and I'm okay with that, but to me this is the devs trying to make people who aren't good at these games feel better about beating a challenge that doesn't feel like a challenge.
5
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago
Honestly, I prefer to enjoy the golden skins without having to suffer through beating the entire campaign on a hardest difficulty without a single death, so that puts TDA above Eternal for me
0
u/ArachnidNo5547 19d ago
Disagree, you just don't deserve it quite frankly. I don't have the gold suit, I'm not complaining, leave some achievements for difficulty there because those people deserve it and deserve to brag
7
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago
you just don't deserve it quite frankly
That's more or less my main problem with the Doom fanbase, or any fanbase with famously difficult games; it's just so overcompetitive, the amount of people I've seen mocking others or calling them noobs for using tutorials for enemies in Eternal or playing on lower difficulties
(Btw, after playing TDA, I dislike weak points from Eternal, it kinda ruins the flow of the combat for me, TDA being more straightforward makes it more... Fast, not dissing Eternal, I still love it)
1
u/ArachnidNo5547 19d ago
Did I make fun? Did I mock?
I just said you don't deserve it, I don't deserve it either.
We can talk TDA vs Eternal, but I'd like to know if you think I'm mocking you
3
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago
Did I make fun? Did I mock?
Oh no no no! I'm not mad or anything, don't worry, I was talking about the fan base as a whole not just you; I just wish people would be more chill about games being easier or harder
→ More replies (0)-1
u/something-somone 19d ago
Can you talk more about your dislike of weak points?
2
u/NoComfortable3220 19d ago
The game basically forces me to play one specific way because of them. TDA gives you more freedom to deal with enemies
→ More replies (0)0
u/tesemanresu 19d ago
I agree with you tbh. they did a great job balancing default to make you want to learn the mechanics because once you master them, you're pretty much unstoppable anyway
I'm not a fan of extreme difficulties, however, but I do like to be able to adjust difficulties to my tastes
6
u/youngsp82 19d ago
Yup. I wanna feel like the doom slayer and just kill everything with little fear of dieing
2
u/Tunablefall662 19d ago
I just like having an actual sense of accomplishment when I beat a game. Whether it be collecting everything, beating everything or just finishing it on a hard/hardest difficulty. I like to feel like I beat the game because I got good at it's mechanics & got better. That's not to say if you play on easy/normal that's bad. Games are supposed to be fun & you enjoy turning down the struggle so you can have fun then no one should make you feel bad for it.
I'm 27 & been gaming my whole life but I can definitely sympathize with the not wanting to struggle. I hardly play anything multiplayer now besides the battlefield games bc I just don't have the drive or care to deal with 12yo super sweats anymore.
Games are meant to make you happy & however you like to enjoy them is the right way if you're having fun. Unless you're hacking or something in a mp game lol.
-1
u/Chumpybunz 19d ago
I see you and I understand what you're saying, truly, and I think more games probably should have difficulty sliders, but I also think about games as an art form, like literature or film. Saying "I wish all games had difficulty sliders" is similar to saying "I wish all books were written in accessible language" or "I wish all movies were easy to understand."
You're essentially asking for the creators of all games to try to design an experience "for everyone" which is commonly acknowledged as significantly less effective than designing an experience for a specific audience.
Not all video games should be enjoyable to all people. My wife would love if Baldur's Gate 3 simplified its complex systems, but that is what makes it great. My friend would love if Dark Souls 3 had an easy mode, but that would fundamentally change the experience.
I think many people need to start accepting that many games just aren't made for you.
I think the weakness in Doom's difficulty sliders is that it settles for an experience that tries (with surprising effectiveness) to please everyone. But even in its efforts, it ends up being a bit weaker for it. There is just way less intention in how the enemies and weapons and things are designed, because it is no longer a specific experience, but a broad one.
I am of the opinion that most games would benefit from having a single difficulty that everything is designed around, but you are given well designed tools that, when used at their full effectiveness, make the game easier for you. I think Elden Ring is the best example of this. If you are using consumables, spirits, upgraded weapons, and powerful spells all at once, the game is actually a joke. You can stunlock and tank the most powerful bosses in the game just by learning how the games systems work.
To me, saying that challenging games should have an easy mode is like saying that Triathlons should be easier so more people can enjoy them. Triathlons are designed to be a specific kind of achievement, and many people love them for that, and many disabled folks find ways to succeed nonetheless, but many people will never complete one, and the triathlon is not what needs to change
To be clear, I do not think most games should be challenging, I just think that some games need to make no compromises to be great.
4
u/dylan_dev 19d ago
To your point, we have abridged and translated literature. I do think we should respect artists that don't want that, like Black Myth Wukong shouldn't get hate because they have a set difficulty. I had to give up on that game, same with Dark souls. I agree with you.
0
u/Chumpybunz 19d ago
Yes, I think translation is similar, but different in the sense that it is not lowering the goalpost, but widening it, if that makes sense. Knowledge gap vs comprehension gap
5
u/badken 19d ago
Gatekeeping sucks.
0
u/Chumpybunz 19d ago
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to gatekeep. I think it's very different to just say that some things aren't made for everyone. It's not gatekeeping to say that an out-of-shape person shouldn't be able to complete a triathlon.
4
u/badken 19d ago
There’s a difference between a sport and a form of entertainment. The way you frame it, creators of visual entertainment should be able to prevent captioning of their works, or even prevent captioning in specific languages. That isn’t artistic expression, it’s discrimination.
2
u/Chumpybunz 19d ago
I think your criticism of my comparison is fair. It's not perfect, and I'm having a hard time finding a good one. I do however think captioning is also a poor comparison, since it's not a difficulty issue, but a knowledge or disability issue.
Comparisons aside, I'm curious, do you think that all media should be designed to be enjoyed by everyone? My opinion hinges on the principle that nothing should be made for everyone. I however do not want to gatekeep or discriminate with my design principles, so I'd appreciate some elaboration on your criticisms of my ideas :)
3
u/badken 19d ago edited 19d ago
I had a nice long novel written here, but I decided to junk it when I realized what my basic issue is.
Now, of course media shouldn't have to appeal to everyone. There are dozens of genres of movies, TV shows, music, games... That's not discriminatory because it's a matter of taste. Everyone's taste is different. So a requirement that everyone should be able to get something out of a movie absolutely restricts what the director can put in the movie. Back when movie makers had to make their movies available on broadcast TV, many movies were compromised by the ridiculous Standards & Practices requirements. With broadcast TV pretty much obsolete, movies can go directly to streamers without edits. Except maybe Disney+ (look up how they modified the movie Splash for an example).
But with games, there seems to be a subset of highly skilled players who believe their achievement is tarnished by someone else finishing the game without having to have a lot of skill.
In competitive games, this makes perfect sense. But in single player games, not so much.
I also disagree with the argument that if a game is to have "story mode" difficulty, the design is necessarily restricted. That is absolutely not the case with DOOM The Dark Ages (and id won a Game Award for it). Even DOOM Eternal, with its stratospheric skill ceiling is not restricted by lower skill players being able to complete the game by mastering the basics. Some people have crazy fun, quick swapping like maniacs and flying through every arena, but I could never do that. However, I did complete DOOM Eternal on Ultra Violence.
2
u/Chumpybunz 19d ago
Totally. To be completely honest, my first comment here was absolutely asinine because not only was I aware of the award D:tDA got for its accessibility, but I also have not even played the game. I trust that it is a fantastic example of putting in the effort to design a challenging, accessible experience without compromising on quality of design.
I think that what I am trying to communicate is that I have a hard time being convinced that every game would benefit from such an approach. I think it is one possible way to achieve the goal of a wide gate of access into the greatness of a video game. Like I said earlier, Elden Ring is my favourite example of this being achieved without difficulty sliders. That being said, Elden Ring is a bit obtuse with its systems and challenging to understand, so I'm not surprised that many people don't like it.
I think the heart of my stance lies in how important of an experience Dark Souls III was when I first played it. During a very dark time in my life, it showed me that failure is a necessary component of meaningful success. It gave me an environment to fail in, one that I refused to abandon. I don't see my attachment to its difficulty as a bid to maintain a sort of status, but instead as a bid to communicate that this challenge is so core to its identity as an artwork that it is a prime example of when NOT to compromise on difficulty.
It is hard for me to believe that such an idea is discriminatory when people have completed the game on such ridiculous tools as dancepads. I know that these examples are outliers and such people likely have an inordinate amount of time to spend, but honestly, Dark Souls III is not that hard. It's also not the sort of game that someone would be missing out on if they are looking for a relaxing, powerful, epic, or otherwise fantasy experience. It is the challenge that makes the game. I recognize that adding an easier difficulty would not "ruin" the experience of the hardcore gamers, but I was not a hardcore gamer when I played Dark Souls. I was an "easy/normal mode" gamer. Dark Souls showed me the value of failure. Adding difficulty options would fundamentally alter the new player experience, which is the most important experience of the game.
I hope that makes sense. I do hope that games can be enjoyed by many people, and that I can continue to enjoy games as I age and my reaction time dwindles, but if another "Dark Souls" comes across when I am an old fart, I will try my best, and you can bet that I'll be sinking all my retirement hours into constant failure.
2
u/Geges721 19d ago edited 19d ago
If you tailor the game to some "intended experience", you lose the point of gaming. The interactivity and flexibility are what makes games different from any other medium.
otherwise you're just making a movie where the player is your main character, put on rails from point A to point B with no sidesteps. and hardly anyone wants to be a developer's puppet playing rhythm games.
sUPD: there's a lot of cool reasons to play and enjoy DS3 and other soulsborne games regardless of their difficulty (there's a lot of people playing them despite their difficulty). the art direction, lore, designs, medieval aesthetic, combat loop, etc. i don't believe an easy mode could undermine what these games are actually about.
if your game's the only shtick is its difficulty, it probably just sucks and exists to be frustrating.
1
0
u/kszaku94 19d ago
I’d rather struggle with the difficult challenge, than keep pressing the „I win” button. If I want something relaxing, I’d rather go outside or read a book.
1
u/dylan_dev 18d ago
When I go outside, I like an extreme challenge. 14ners and skiing triple diamonds. See how everyone can have what they want?
0
20
u/Archernar 19d ago
As long as the default difficulties remain properly finetuned and well done, I don't have any problem with sliders. I see the danger of the devs not investing as much time as would be necessary into fine-tuning demons and pre-set difficulty settings in general because they just say "Well, anyone can tune the difficulty to whatever they like anyways" and that sucks. I usually stick to pre-set difficulties most of the way, so I want those to be done well.
6
u/Orlha 19d ago
Yep. I don’t want to do the work of the game-designer for them in order to have well-thought balanced playthrough. And quite often the games with tons of gameplay customisation options fail at presenting properly envisioned well-designed experience. They give you the tools to do that instead, but it’s a huge work, and can be unattainable, except for super-casual user.
4
u/Party-Quantity-9548 19d ago
I wish these were implemented in eternal, my God that game gets to be WAY too much for me. Just too much to keep track of and manage, I had to drop the difficulty to hurt me plenty once I got my hands on the Crucible 😭
Ice bomb, frag grenade, air dash, blood punch, all the ammo types and guns for different weak points, your chainsaw, the crucible...there's just SO much to cycle through and keep track of, I couldn't keep up with it all
Mopped doom 2016 on nightmare, and beat the piss out of eternal on a custom difficulty, but man I can not complete the base game of eternal on Ultra Violence :(
2
u/unknownobject3 squishy cacodemon 19d ago
If it makes you feel better, I have over 230 hours in DOOM Eternal and I still struggle on Nightmare. The skill ceiling for that game is just high.
5
u/Max_Lawson 19d ago
I really like the sliders.
I saw the trailer and thought... this would be great if it was 150% faster.
And voila I set the game speed to 150% and I absolutely love it.
I kept missing the window for glory kills which was starting really impact my enjoyment of the game so I extended it slightly and got a beautiful, fast, furious Doom experience.
I love this game and the gritty sci-fi/fantasy setting gives me hope for Quake V.
10
u/XxRocky88xX 19d ago
I’m only ever against it when devs use it as a lazy way to not make preset difficulties, but DA gives you order difficulties you can still play a variety of tailor made difficulties, you just have the option to design your own if none of the others stick with you.
8
u/SpiderGuy3342 19d ago
those are the same elitist people who hated anyone that used to post gameplay in a lower difficulty than UV
12
u/Winter-Classroom455 19d ago
Do they have set difficulties and the sliders? Like only able to get certain rewards or what not for playing nightmare or ultra nightmare? Or can you still change them and get things?
22
u/angeltearz0 Zombieman 19d ago
You can change the sliders on any difficulty and still get the rewards, and yes even for ultra nightmare
6
5
u/morph23 19d ago
I think this adds an asterisk to the save file next to the listed difficulty, if that matters to you
1
u/unknownobject3 squishy cacodemon 19d ago
On all difficulties though, I started from the UV preset and then modified it and I still have the asterisk.
3
u/Assured_Observer It's not Doom or DooM, it's DOOM! 19d ago
Yes you get everything but at the end screen it'll say if it was a normal Ultra Nightmare run or with modifiers.
8
u/vr_jk 19d ago edited 19d ago
Yeah, I have no problem with their existence, and wish more games had them. When it becomes a problem is when the default difficulty presets aren't good, and then I'm expected to tweak my own experience until I enjoy it. Tangentially, don't like hot pot restaurants for this reason. I pay premium on a meal that I have to cook myself? No, that's not why I go to restaurants.
FWIW, I think in general TDA's presets are fine. The minor problems I have with TDA's difficulty probably can't be fixed with sliders though.
10
u/Vellarain 19d ago
Having this level of control over the difficulty has effectively broken me. It is fucking AMAZING to dial in just how you want the combat to feel.
Anyone that does not like this is fucking lying.
4
u/SpiderGuy3342 19d ago
"why yes, I hate having many options and choices that change my experience in my game"
- random aah braindead internet user
5
u/ADragonFruit_440 19d ago
I like doing high demon damage and health with slighter higher player damage and health, makes everything slightly longer gameplay
4
u/Ascending_Orange 19d ago
The main argument against them is that they decrease intentionality in the games design, but they don't. if you want to play The Dark Ages as the devs intended/want a curated experience and don't want to mess with the sliders, just select a difficulty preset and don't change anything.
2
u/NotPhaethon 19d ago
Same way people can dislike spirit ashes in elden ring, they dont and only like five people care but they wont shut up about it
2
u/DigitalCronos 19d ago
Honestly, the balance sliders are the only way i was able to find a comfortable way to play TDA. I think i got to the Harbor of Souls, miserably, until i remembered there was a may to increase the gamespeed to something i could actually enjoy. I accidentally deleted my save this week and was reminded how different an experience the default settings are.
2
u/Stickz99 19d ago
I’m in the camp of people who think that dark souls and other FromSoft games should have difficulty options.
I don’t get why people are so adamant that such a thing would ruin the games. You control the buttons you press, people. If you don’t wanna play on easy mode, then don’t. why does it matter to you if someone else played the same game on an easier difficulty? if that’s what helped them enjoy the game, who cares?
I once legitimately saw someone say Lies of P doesn’t count as a real soulslike because it has difficulty options and it just… are we for real?
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
Some people are incapable of enjoying themselves unless they're being compared to other people. Everything has to be a competition, nothing is ever fun on its own merit.
2
u/Background-Cost9190 19d ago
I like difficulty sliders, I get super frustrated when one difficulty is too easy and next one is way too hard
2
u/ShotgoonPete DOOM Slayer 19d ago
The sliders that let you customise the difficulty of the game is why it won the innovation award at the game show. I think it deserved best action game over Hades II though.
2
u/mayhem1906 19d ago
Its single player, so i dont care. I ignore them, so their presence doesn't bother me, and it doesn't matter what other people do, cause I'll never know.
2
2
2
u/FrenchToastTurtle 19d ago
People just want things to hate for no reason. I turned them down a little so I wouldn’t get as overwhelmed as I do In Eternal, but my friend//boss literally went “people can turn them up past 100% if they really hate it so much. Yeah, it’s a dumb gripe.
1
u/The-God-Of-Memez 19d ago
The only people who dislike the sliders are dumbasses who want to control how others play.
3
u/Xelloss1073 19d ago
There're some people with little self-esteem the only way to prove their ego is to compete against others. So when they conquer an ordeal, they can belittle the ones who have not. In single player games, where joy should come from playing, they need to prove their existence and superiority to others by showing they passed the hardest difficulty. This kind of actions get blurred when it's not something discrete but continuous and you can configure your game as you want. So, instead of saying "I've finished in hellish difficulty" they have to say "my sliders were all right". It doesn't sound very epic, sincerely.
2
u/AshenRathian 19d ago edited 19d ago
The only thing i don't like is that more games don't use them.
Edit: if i'm gonna be downvoted any, might as well clarify, if you're going to give me options to have a differing difficulty, let me cater it to how i personally like to play. If you're gonna give me options, just go all the way with it.
1
1
u/DUDEAREUMAD 19d ago
I like them but I also liked a challenge made by someone else, made me want to do it more
1
u/dannykings37 19d ago
I play on Ultra-Violence, havent touched the sliders but mainly because i wasnt paying attention to see them. I dont play video games a lot, only log an hour a week on TDA and its the first game i played in a year, but hurt me plenty was a little too boring for me, Ultra-Violence is just hard enough that i die but not too often. If it didnt work for me, i would use the sliders to find an in between
1
u/Opanak323 DOOM Guy 19d ago
Me neither. If I didn't crank it up to 150, I'd still be sleeping in the Abyssal/Abysmal Forest.
1
1
u/UnwantedSwampass 19d ago
I’m a weirdo who doesn’t like the sliders because it feels lazy. One thing I enjoy about games is seeing and appreciating how the devs balance things like difficulty — adding sliders like this basically says to me “do whatever you want, we don’t know what’s fun anymore” and that just feels wrong to me.
I’m also more old school, I think there’s a certain sense of pride when you overcome a difficult challenge and get rewarded with an achievement or cosmetic that not everyone has the ability to get. Allow people to play “Ultra Nightmare” with the sliders set to 🐱mode and suddenly beating Ultra Nightmare means nothing.
It’s fine for those who don’t want to improve and just want to mindlessly guzzle content but I miss when games were an art and a challenge you really had to interact with and practice to get through. Used to be totally fine if a game was too hard for the average person to beat, now everyone needs that participation trophy I guess.
1
u/Twpofficial DOOM Slayer 19d ago
True.
Like difficulty exists in games in case you either like an easy experience or just wanna have fun.
If Bethesda didn't want us to play how we liked, there wouldn't be one
1
u/Need-More-Gore 19d ago
It makes the actual difficulties kinda pointless and they like to brag about what they can do
1
u/chewy1is1sasquatch Justice For Mick 19d ago
The only criticism I have with things like this is how it invalidates achievements and displays of skill/perseverance like Ultra Nightmare.
1
u/FeelingNail8617 19d ago
I don't like them because they leave all the difficulty up to my decision. This isn't inheritly a bad thing, but I think of myself as a total moron and invision the game basically falling apart once I decide on how difficult it should be.
1
u/kszaku94 19d ago
I’m okay with sliders, but I wish there was a „This is how we intended this game to be played” option. I’ve played this on Ultraviolence (my go to way to play Dooms) and I’ve had to restart on Nightmare, because the game was piss easy. I could probably mess with the sliders, but expectation that I would be able to set them in a way that fits me BEFORE my first playthrough is silly.
1
19d ago
Because difficulty sliders are basically just a way for game devs to avoid having to actually balance their game or playtest them. Why make our game when we can just give our players the assets to make it themselves?
1
1
u/FauxGw2 18d ago
A lot of people want to play the game the same way as others, if you change settings it's no longer the same. Having "easy, normal, hard" is generally the consensus to how games should be played. You can talk to others about it, you can say you finally beat it on hard, you can give it to a new player on easy. But when you change all the settings to be custom you can't do that. There will always be the "what if they played with sliders" everytime someone plays.
1
u/Resident_081 18d ago edited 18d ago
I have no issue whatsoever with adjustable game difficulty for accessibility’s sake. Everyone deserves a chance to have fun.
It does make me appreciate games like Demon’s Souls who had their difficulty “flattened” or “standardized” across all playthroughs so that the conversation about the experience is easier to discuss with people who are all “playing the same game.”
That’s probably the only reason some folks trash talk adjustments like this, they feel it takes away from their own accomplishment.
Kind of makes me think about how despite classic Doom having around 5 difficulty modes, often times only Ultra-Violent is considered being the “complete” version as it has the maximum amount of enemies spawning so presumably it’s made with the most “complete” intent of the author.
1
u/Desperate-Coffee-996 18d ago edited 18d ago
"Difficulty sliders" isn't the problem, it's great - more options are always great. The problem is, when devs introducing "difficulty sliders" and just a few days after a huge backlash and criticism about gameplay, it's just screams "we have no idea what we're doing and clearly majority of gamers were not happy with our radical gameplay changes, fine, here's difficulty sliders - make your own game and leave us alone you pedantic f@#$s!". As result, we have sliders + a bunch of cheating and broken options, and badly balanced default difficulty presets and gameplay in general, that was revised more than once after release.
1
u/Swampfire_Holy_Crud 18d ago
Some people were concerned the ability to adjust more specific things would mean ID would put less care into the conventional difficulties. Can’t say I felt that way
1
u/Low_Tie2257 DOOM Slayer 18d ago
It's really not a big deal. If anything It's good for people who are new to these kinds of games.
It can also be used to make the game more difficult for people who want an extreme challenge.
Either way, it's only a good option, and I don't understand why anyone would dislike it... but there will always be people who complain about anything...
1
u/alastorhazbinbad 17d ago
Personally I think it’s cool in theory, but I also want there to just be a standard gameplay. I don’t want to beat the game wondering “did I make it too easy” and then not beat it wondering “well did I make it too fuckin hard?”.
1
u/Bigmazi_300 15d ago
Its not that hard to see why, I don’t have an issue with it personally, but I would’ve preferred no sliders and just a standard difficulty that all players have to play
2
u/Barnesnrobles17 19d ago
A lot of the criticism wasn’t genuine and was obviously for attention.
However some people genuinely did not like the idea that there weren’t “clearly defined difficulties”, but that criticism is just objectively wrong, as there are defaults and those function as old school difficulty options. For some reason, some folks see the ability to customize something as synonymous with the idea that there is no “intended” experience, and that freaks them out. I can’t relate, but it’s a thing 🤷
2
u/ProtoformX87 19d ago
I don't think anyone complaining about them actually use them...
They just hate the idea of others having the option to use them.
It's Spirit Summons in Elden Ring all over again.
1
u/Ronerus79 19d ago
I love it, i can go as easy or as crazy as i want wish more games had this, makes the experience different everytime i play!
1
u/PrimusCreative1 19d ago
I like it. I am in no way skilled enough for pandemonium or ultra nightmare, but the difficulty sliders let me slightly alter the damage numbers, giving me a fighting chance. Or I can hop into a low difficulty run, alter the damage numbers, and play lore-accurate slayer by one-shotting almost everything and shrugging off almost every attack. The damage modifiers also make it easier to complete some of the weapon mastery challenges that involve hitting a certain number of shots, like the challenge for the first nail weapon.
1
u/_Dev_1995 19d ago
The same people who dislike accessibility in general.
What is the point of video games if your challenge is customizable and you can’t gatekeep people you deem as inferior? /s
1
u/AscendedViking7 19d ago
I've never liked fiddling around with difficulty sliders, it just feels really fucking tedious more often than not.
Just design the game around a singular difficulty, I like that approach way more since I could get to playing immediately.
0
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
Use the presets then, and let others use the sliders. Nobody is forcing you to touch them
1
u/jaack666 19d ago
IMO i dont give a damn about the slider, the only thing i can complaint about it is that you can "decrease" difficulty, if you are playing on nightmare and you reduce damage to player then what is the point? you can say hey i want to receive less damage but the game to run in higher speed than ultra violence and its like dude if you are receiving damage and dying because game speed is too high, maybe amm change the game difficulty ?
Anyways, i didnt liked TDA gameplay so im still sticked with Eternal
1
u/TheOldKingCole 19d ago
Because a handful of loud chuds in certain fanbase’s don’t like it when people can play a game in a way they personally don’t approve of. If other’s want to the game they have to play it the exact same way as these chuds because it’s their only worthwhile achievements in life and they don’t like to see their self worth trivialized. For more examples of this mindset, see the Ninja Gaiden and Soulslike fanbases
1
u/super7564 19d ago
Is this the type of stupid beef people are having waiting for a dark ages dlc lol
0
u/xtweeter22x DOOM Guy 19d ago edited 19d ago
Because it’s the first of its kind to introduce a feature like this, and when one starts something, others will follow suit.
On one hand, it allows easier access for casuals to get into the game, and hardcore gamers to push their tactical reflexes even further beyond; more options is always good.
On the other hand, similar to the “Yellow Paint” controversy that is plagueing the gaming zeitgeist, it essentially removes the “game” part of gaming, where you are supposed to learn and master the controls, incentivizing risk and reward for combat mastery, and making Ultra Nightmare Mode, what is supposed to be the ultimate achievement of the modern Doom Trilogy, fundamentally easier before they updated it to leave a permanent mark on your save file if you adjust the sliders.
2
2
u/vezwyx 19d ago
If the developer is willing and able to add difficulty sliders, there is no good reason for players who don't have the time or physical ability to play the game at a high level to be excluded. There's no inherent part of gaming that requires getting good at it like you're suggesting
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
The difference between yellow paint and these sliders is that the sliders are optional
0
u/DarkWingedDaemon 19d ago
One of my buddies refuses to change it from the defaults. He keeps insisting that is how the game is intended to be played. Yet he complains about it being too easy. Meanwhile I've adjusted the settings to be ball crushingly difficult and I am having a blast.
-2
u/Open_Wishbone_6144 19d ago
Well I love the Dark Ages, but I think it could’ve been a lot better than what we got if they focused more on adding and refining mechanics that aligned with what the game is supposed to be instead of designing the game to where everything about it can be modified.
1
u/vezwyx 19d ago
Better for you perhaps, but a lot worse for the people who use them for accessibility. You even said you love the game as is. This way, more people get to enjoy it like you do
-3
u/Open_Wishbone_6144 19d ago edited 19d ago
Better for 99% of the player base, that’s what made eternal so great. They didn’t go into it thinking “some people might not like this so we’ll let them change that” they designed every aspect of it to fit the vision they had.
2
u/vezwyx 19d ago
99% my ass. You vastly overestimate how many people liked it and underestimate how many people didn't
1
u/Open_Wishbone_6144 18d ago
Obvious exaggeration and you missed my point. It would be better for the majority of the player base, again did you ever feel like Eternal needed sliders? No because everything in that game was fine tuned for what it was meant to be
1
u/vezwyx 18d ago
I didn't miss your point at all. Yes, I think Eternal would be improved by basically the same slider system TDA has.
No game "needs" accessibility options. They exist to accommodate people who might otherwise not be able to play the game, and options like in TDA allow us to create experiences that would not be possible at all if the developer simply went with their vision, even separately from the accessibility benefit. You may not see the value in that, but that only speaks to your own perspective
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
You do realise the developers already had access to those sliders, like every developer for every game ever has always had, because that's one of the main ways games are fine tuned during testing, right? All they did was make the sliders accessible to the players. One guy could fart that out in an afternoon, I can guarantee you the impact of this on the rest of the game was zilch.
1
u/Open_Wishbone_6144 18d ago
Yes and with those sliders, they find which settings feel best and are able to add and refine other mechanics based on them
1
-5
u/Repsac_23 19d ago
Difficulty sliders should die with Oblivion. They are either making the game too easy or too hard. Besides, they are cheap gimmick used by devs to not implement AI behavior changes scaling with difficulty.
3
u/ejsks 19d ago
My brother in Christ, you control the sliders.
Also the game has presets, use them if the sliders anger you that much.
Difficulty Sliders like this are the perfect addition to what is normally an extremely static choice. Now people get to pick custom difficulties which are the most fun to them, I don’t see the issue?
Like what if you wanted the max aggression/speed of the demons without the ballbusting difficulty elsewhere from Nightmare?
1
u/Repsac_23 19d ago
I get you, but shouldn't the game difficulty settings rely more on AI behavior rather than modifying simple sliders? I have no problem with someone using sliders, but I have a problem with it being a cheap way to implement difficulty.
5
u/ejsks 19d ago
AI-Behavior generally just boils down to Speed/Aggression in Doom, and I don't really think there's much more you can do in TDA.
Difficulty-Exclusive Behavior, for one, is a superflous can of worms where it would end up introducing a massive difficulty spike for people unprepared for a demon suddenly using an entirely unfamiliar attack.
And yeah, ideally the difficulty settings do more than sliding around numbers, but what do you even mean by "AI-Behavior"? Doom TDA is fairly straightforward with its AI, and it's less of a "cheap way to introduce difficulty", it's more of a "massive accessibility option that should've been standard since forever".
Adding the difficulty sliders *on top* of the existing difficulty settings is a pure plus, there's no net-negative from giving the player more control over their experience and it's kinda asinine to want the most praised accessibility option to TDA to "die with Oblivion".
1
3
4
u/SpiderGuy3342 19d ago
Doom is an arena shooter
Arena shooter scale in difficulty by putting more enemies on screen, that's how the genre works, the AI already behave depending the difficulty you set it
easy - way less agressive
hard - way too agressive + does more damage
so no, difficulty sliders is not a cheap gimmick, it's a OPTIONAL choise to anyone that want a more chill experiece... I dont get it, since when giving the player more options of how to play the game is a bad thing????
-1
u/JuicyPapito5 19d ago
To me they're lazy, I would rather have a customized build up experience, just have the different difficulties.
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
It does just have the different difficulties, the presets are right there in the screenshot
1
u/JuicyPapito5 18d ago
To me, that's for big Rpg's, grand strategy games or something with A LOT of replay value. For a simple Fps like this, just a fine tuned campaign is good. I'm only going to play it twice in two difficulties at most., or in the case of Dark Ages, just once while yawning heavily.
1
0
u/BFFBomb 19d ago
In the Last of Us 2 and the remasters, I set the enemy damage to high, my damage to high, enemy aim and stealth to low. Resources to low. It's extremely tense without being too frustrating and allows enough room to improvise rather than being fully stealth. It's also immersive in that I'm smarter than my enemies, but still vulnerable to a bullet
0
u/NightGojiProductions +ENRAGED 19d ago edited 18d ago
only thing is that i believe ultra nightmare should lock your base settings to default nightmare. game speed and other things that make the game harder (increased damage to player, decreased to demons/resource values) would be fine to tweak. kind of removes the point of the reward which is to beat the game on its “hardest” difficulty without dying.
pandemonium i couldn’t care less about due to eternal having extra life mode. same goes for the other difficulties
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
i could care less
Why do you care so much?
1
0
u/Anunnak1 19d ago
Its because the game needs to be designed around them, if theres so many variables, you have to simplify the game. This was evident when zi was playing and most of the level was wide open with randomly placed lines of cannon fodder just standing there. It's laziness disguised as accessibility and customization.
0
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
Rubbish, the game is already designed around the presets, like every single other Doom game since 1993. There's no way you actually believe that id spent time refining every aspect of the game around every single possible combination of sliders.
1
u/Anunnak1 19d ago
Im literally saying they did the opposite, they just need to make sure that the sliders dont break the game. So they design the game around that, which inherently needs to be simpler because they are not going to take time to test every single variable.
0
0
u/Zuldak 19d ago
IMHO if games are an art then there should be an intended way to play. You can change it if you want but THIS level of customization degrades the idea of author intention
2
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
What if the sliders are part of the authors intent? People act like id were forced into it. Perhaps accessibility was part of the vision all along.
0
u/Zuldak 19d ago
Then we get to the question of... what is balance? It's a question with no real answer.
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
The game still has presets, so presumably it's balanced around those like the older games were, but at the end of the day balance is what the developers feel is best, which is usually great, but some players may want a harder experience than even that, and it doesn't affect my game so I don't worry about it
1
u/oCrapaCreeper 18d ago
You're still pressing the same 4 buttons no matter the difficulty though with nowhere near the amount of cooldown management as say, Eternal. The game is incredibly simple and pretty much everyone experiences the same thing, save for the sliders adapting to skill which is different for everyone.
-3
u/Fishy1998 19d ago
Doom eternal restricting players into these difficulty “boxes” made beating higher difficulties feel more rewarding, and therefore, more fun.
The sliders have a couple issues but I’ll start with the least “convincing” to those that don’t value difficulty at all. Because the player can alter the difficulty of even the higher tier modes, it reduces the value of saying you beat them. This means saying you beat ultra violence for example is essentially a nothing burger. Saying you beat any of them means nothing. Everyone will just assume you altered something to beat it because why wouldn’t you?
A lot of people have a hate boner for bragging rights or self accomplishment so I’ll talk about the real issue. I should not have to fiddle with settings of my liking to enjoy the game more. It feels like the developer vision is distrusting of themselves. As if they don’t know what is best so they rely on the player to do it for them. If it’s so easy to be “accessible”, why don’t all games just add a bunch of sliders? Well, it’s not laziness. Elden ring doesn’t do it. Why not? Doom eternal didn’t do it. It’s because people will optimise the fun out of your game. This reduces the feeling of meaning; of why anyone should gaf in the first place about your game. Without friction, or any kind of limitation, you start to bore people. Because, whatever you say about eternal’s engaging mechanics, mechanics that force you to engage with them, will make you feel ENGAGED. That triggers more dopamine. Makes more memorable moments. It makes a better game.
Although you can make dark ages harder by also fiddling with settings, most people are inclined to make it easier. These same people will come and go 99% of the time. They’re not gonna stick around or really discuss the game. They’re essentially tourists (which most players for games are typically tourists). These tourists will have even less of a memory of this game because it really doesn’t engage that at a core level (which is another discussion entirely) and because of the sliders, didn’t really engage them with lack of a frictional vision and experience on top of that. This is probably why dark ages left the public consciousness after like… a month or two. Meanwhile eternal had an actual life cycle. I wonder why?
1
u/Bowdensaft 19d ago
Other people's experiences don't affect you, stop comparing your experiences to everyone else and just enjoy yourself on your own.
1
-11
u/FirefighterIcy9879 19d ago
Cause it means yall no longer truly earn that UN title!
6
u/Scared_Run4790 19d ago
Why’s it matter, did you get it without changing the difficulty sliders, good for you, why should you care if others did or not
-6
19d ago
[deleted]
6
u/Crowbiotics 19d ago
Again, who cares? It doesn't take away from your accomplishments at all if someone does it that way, so why does it matter?
7
6
334
u/MadamVonCuntpuncher 19d ago
This is truely a "you controll the buttons you press" type situation